
Veronica Frey, * 1615, + 30.11.1684
Kinder:
12.01.1640 Barbara, oo 16 Oct 1661 Hans Jakob Huber, + 21.March.1710
12. Dec 1641 Hans, oo 06 Dec 1664 Katharina Huber (See document below)
25.Feb 1644 Rudolf
24.Oct 1647 Hans Kaspar, oo 11.Dec.1677 Barbara Gut
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Rudolf Sidler birth 16 February 1612 film 8014328 page 79 |
(Sunday) 16. Febru(ar) [1612]
E(ltern): Hans Sÿdler, Cathrin Kleinerin
K(ind): Rudolff
Z(eugen): Rudolff Huber von Bostetten (= Bonstetten), Anna Stelin, Melch(ior) Steiners Frouw
Anna Stehli and Melchior Steiner got married in Ottenbach 06.02.1597.
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1615 Veronica Frey 11 June baptism Knonau, Zürich, Schweiz page 81 |
Headings: Kind / Eltern / Götte / Gotte / Tag / Monat
child / parents / godfather / godmother / day / month
Fronegk ein eh(liches)
Parents: Lienhardt Freÿ, Anna Fosterin, zu Knonauw (Lienhard Frei and Anna Forster got married 13 December 1612 in Knonau: spelling "Foster" mentioned)
Witnesses: Heinrich Hegetschwiller (Hegetschweiler) zu Kn(onauw)
Fronegk Hoffstetterin (Hofstetter) zu Knonauw
Date: 11 Junij [1615]
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1640 Ottenbach 12 Jan baptism Barbara Sidler page 135 |
Den 12. tag Jenner [1640]
Rudlj Sidler von Ottenbach / Veronica Freÿin
Barbara
Witnesses: Jost Schneewlin / Barbara Wÿdlerin (beide von Ottenbach)
The 12th day of January
Note: Both, Widler and Wydler, are official spellings for Ottenbach citizens today. Whether they have a common ancestor (and, if yes, when the two lines split), I don't know.
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1641 Hans Sidler baptism 12 Dec Ottenbach page 140 |
Parents: Rudli Sÿdler von Ottenbach / Veronica Freÿin
Kinder: Hanß
Witnesses: Hanß Gutt von Nider Lummeren / Anna Stehlin von Ober Lummeren
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1644 Hans Jogli, bapt. 25.02.1644 film 008014328 page 144 |
Great - you have found the "missing link" - which also helps to solve the name problem (Hans Jogli vs. Rudolf).
Den 25.ten Febru(uar) [1644]
(Eltern): Rudi Sÿdler allhir, Veronegk Freÿin
Kind: Hans Joggli
Zeügen: Hanß Jogli (added marked +) Steiner vnd Verena Sigerstin (Sigerist)
Note: I have described the solution on Geneal-Forum: Billeter's misunderstanding will likely have been caused by the subsequent entry of the baptism. The name of the child baptised on 25 February (Hanß Joggli) appears under the entry ‘Kind’ - but in the same line next to it is the name of the father (Rudli) of the child baptised on 3 March.
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1647 Hans Kaspar Sidler baptism 24 Oct Ottenbach page 152 |
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1646 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse Rudolf Sidler Veronica Frey film 8126305 page 7332 |
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1670 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse film 007765846 page 381 |
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1678 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse Rudolf Sidler and Veronica Frey film 8126303 page 467 |
Wolf: Correct - small more in the sense of younger: Kleinhans is not an "official" name, but used in the family (or even the community) to differentiate him from another, older Hans - here most likely his grandfather.
Wolf: "Rudi Sÿdler der alt" indicates that there is (at least was) a "Rudi der jung" around. Do you know of a suitable candidate? Billeter has this Rudolf bapt. 25.02.1644 - who according to the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis was named Hans Jagli …. have you checked this baptismal date yet?
Restatement of the Problem: According to Billeter, a Rudolf is baptized on 25.02.1644 - but the population register of 1678 confirms the name Hans Jogli. Hans Jogli is also given as 26 years old in 1670 - only in 1646 is he not mentioned (only Barbara with 7 and Hans with 6).Billeter's misunderstanding was probably caused by the subsequent entry of the baptism:
The name of the child baptized on 25.02. (Hanß Joggli) appears under the entry “Child” - but in the same line next to it is the name of the father (Rudli) of the child baptized on 03.03.![]() |
1689 Young Hans Sidler in Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse film 00814133 page 333 |
Wolf:
Kleinhanß Seidler, Kilchmejer
Chilch-/Kilch- is dialect for Kirch-… / Meier is an administrator - could be at very different levels. Idiotikondescribes two situations:
1. Administrator of the church property (but usually only a subordinate assistant to the recipient of the church interest).
2. Head of the parish.
Under the circumstances I tend towards (2).
BTW - 1689 - not 1889.
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1689 Ottenbach Bevölkerungsverzeichniss film 008014133 page 336 |
Correct - again "Kilchmejer".
Wolf: BTW - I have summarized the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=127939#p127987 (again, please don't post there for the time being), confirming Billeter - with the exception of an obvious typo: Heinrich got married 1700 - not 1800 ;-).
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 13 |
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 19 |
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 22 |
Wolf:
Hans Kaspar Sidler, ≈ Ottenbach 24.10.1647, Sohn von Rudolf
oo Ottenbach 11.12.1677
Barbara Gut, ≈ 17.02.1656, + 06.05.1728
Kinder:
08.12.1678 Hans Rudolf, ooI 14.12.1706 Anna Schneebeli, ooII 08.12.1716 Adelheid Meili, + 31.01.1768
25.12.1680 Melchior, oo 15.11.1718 Katharina Sidler, + 26.08.1759
11.12.1682 Elsbeth, oo 13.02.1703 Rudolf Gut, + 07.06.1756
24.02.1685 Marx, oo ..., + 01.09.1746
03.07.1687 Hans Rudolf, + 17.01.1697
17.03.1689 Heinrich, oo ..., + 31.01.1757
17.03.1695 Anna, oo 09.12.1727 Hans Gut, + 08.10.1758I 14.12.1706
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 27 |
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 28 |
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 29 - 30. |
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Sidler and Hegetschweiler Temple Record Book by Julius Billeter page 32 |
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Rudolf Sidler burial 28 September 1675 film 8014328 page 374 |
den 28.ten Septembris [1675]
Rudi Sÿdler der alt allhir zu Ottenbach
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1684 Veronica Frey burial 30 Nov 1684 Ottenbach film 8014328 page 380 |
(Sunday) d(en) 30. 9br (November) [1684]
Vroneck Freÿin, Rudi Seidlers S(elig) v(on) Otenbach hinderlassne eheliche Witfrauw. 69-jährig.
Translation: hinderlassne eheliche Witfrauw=surviving marital widow
Re Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1678: structure depended to some extent on the pastor writing it up - and also changed with time. The older records from e.g. Uster (where I had done some research many years ago) were organised per household: this does not necessarily mean that this holds for other parishes at different times as well.
Let's look at XXXIII from 1678: We have Rudi Seidlers widow - quite likely that she lived together with her eldest son and his family. And we have the two younger sons - both married but without children - again quite likely that they lived in the same house. I am not familiar with the situation in Ottenbach, but e.g. in Thurgau I had many situations where one "house" consisted of several "flats". So I consider it quite likely that all these people lived together - but cannot be sure.
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1678 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse Veronica Frey film 8126303 page 467 |