Catharina Sidler 1631 - 1692

All we have on Katharina is her birth and marriage record. While her birth is verified as seen below, we have little on her husband or children or her death. There are two ways of looking at Katharina. Billeter says her husband is Jakob Kleiner. However there appears to be evidence from her marriage certificate that she could be married to Heinrich Huber. If so the couple lived in Aeugst am Albis. They had two children. Evidence for both marriages are seen below. Was Billeter wrong? Was Katharina married to Heinrich Huber?

I have searched BV Kirch censuses in Aeugst am Albis and Ottenbach have come up empty. 

During their lives:

1640 In Ottenbach there are 52 adults, 42 single, 319 inhabitants, 6.1 per household or 52 homes in the community. (Ottenbach Told by Bernard Schnider and Salomon Schneider and Erika Schmid)
1689 - 1694 Hunger crisis leads to large population losses

1661  Construction of the first Ottenbach schoolhouse

1645 - 1647 Construction of a mill wheel on the Reuss river

1638   Construction of the Ottenbach rectory. (Ottenbach Municipality Website)

Documents related to Katharina Sidler:

Katharina Sidler birth 31 July 1631 film 8014328 page 121 bottom right

Kent:

Date: 31 July 1631
Parents: Jaglj Sÿdler der Wagner, Vroneg Urmi
Kinder: Katharina

1634 Hans Uli Sidler and Elssbeth Heggetschwyler bap Cathrin
Sidler Ottenbach film page 127

Jakob Kleiner baptism Mettmenstetten or 

Aeugst am Albis, Zürich, Schweiz page 66, 6 Jan 1633 

1661 Marriage 16 Oct Jacob Kleiner and Katharina Sidler
Mettmenstetten page 19 

Wolf: 

On 16 October 1661 3 weddings take place in Mettmenstetten ZH with family connections of the bride and groom:

143) Hanß Jacob Huber, Vogt Huber's blessed son / Barbara Sÿdlerin

144) Jacob Kleiner, Oslj (Oswald) Kleiner's ehl(icher) son / Cathrj Sÿdlerin [....?] Huberin, soror superioris

145) Heinj Huber, Fendrich Huber's ehl(icher) son / Cathrj Sÿdlerin (the suffix in is added to denote feminine.)

I am puzzled by entry 144. https://suche.staatsarchiv.djiktzh.ch/d ... ID=2027249 the following is given:

Kleiner, Jakob, married to Huber, Verena

“Osli” (Oswald) Kleiner's son

Bailiff Huber's own daughter. Her brother Hans Jakob Huber marries on the same day.

If she had Huber as her maiden name (Vogt Huber's own daughter or “soror superioris*) - what does the ‘Cathrj Sÿdlerin’ in front of her name mean? Should it be crossed out instead of underlined, because of confusion with the following entry? Or was the bride called Cathrin Sidler with an unclear reference to Huber?)
Note: Jakob's father, Oswald was a Kirchenmeyer, (administrator of church farm property). His wife is Dorothea Funk. Married 26 Feb 1623, Mettmenstetten, ZH. He died 29 April 1666. 

Question: Or was the bride called Cathrin Sidler with an unclear reference to Huber?

Walter: Could that mean “verw[itwete] Huberin”?

Oliver: I would read “Cathri Sydlerin vere Huberin”, i.e. “Katharina Sidler, in truth Huber”. This indicates a subsequent correction of the name.

Wolf: @Walter: I had already thought of “widowed” - but didn't find a suitable marriage; doesn't have to rule it out (gap in the marriage register?) - but doesn't make it likely either.
@Olivier: so underlined, since it was corrected, but wrong at first. Sounds very plausible.
Wolf: The wife we are looking for, Katharina, is the daughter of Jakob Sidler and Vronegg Urmi. Billeter married her to Jakob Kleiner - but if his bride Katharina's real name was Huber, the only remaining groom from 16.10.1661 is Heini Huber, son of Ensign Huber, whose first name is unfortunately not given. The Mettmenstetten population register could possibly provide some clarity.

Wolf: Olivier has posted a plausible interpretation of the marriage entry 144: the bride was not a Cathrin Sidler but (corrected) a Cathrin Huber … so Jacob Kleiner is not Cathrin Sidler's husband! Instead "your" Cathrin Sidler got married to Heini Huber (entry 145) if we stick to the date.

Did Katharina marry to Heinrich Huber?

@Walter: I had already thought of “widowed” - but didn't find a suitable marriage; doesn't have to rule it out (gap in the marriage register?) - but doesn't make it likely either.

@Olivier: so underlined, since it was corrected, but wrong at first. Sounds very plausible.

Wolf: The wife we are looking for, Katharina, is the daughter of Jakob Sidler and Vronegg Urmi. Billeter married her to Jakob Kleiner - but if his bride Katharina's real name was Huber, the only remaining groom from 16 October 1661 is Heini Huber, son of Ensign Huber, whose first name is unfortunately not given. The Mettmenstetten population register could possibly provide some clarity.

Wolf: Heinrich Huber 9SSX-ZKX and Katharina Sidler married 16 October 1661. The Aeugst am Albis have been searched and two children from this marriage were found as seen below. The Katharina Sidler on FS has her birth in 1634 not 1631, different parents etc. The FS entry also has the wrong father for Heinrich based on the translation of the marriage certificate above.

Kent: FS has Katharina born 1634 and married 16 October 1661 and the couple have two children. They have Katharina and Heinrich bearing children in Aeugst am Albis. FS has no birth, or death for her husband Heinrich, just their marriage. Their second child Hans has a birth witness named Jacob Kleiner. BV's have been searched in Ottenbach and Mettmenstetten (1670) (lots of Kleiner names) and Aeugst am Albis. No Katharina but I will look again.

1666 Osli Kleiner death 29 Apr bur 1 May Aeugst ZH
film 008014293 page 208 

Places of residence given are "Obermet" and "Undermet" - which I assume to stand for Obermettmenstetten and Undermettmenstetten - why would they attend Aeugst am Albis - by tradition (families from there)?

In the course of further checks in this connection, the following baptisms of these couples were found in Mettmenstetten:

10.08.1662 Anna “primogenita” of Heinj Huber and Cathrj Sÿdlerin ("primogenita" = firstborn.)

12.11.1662 Anna “primogenita” of Hanß Jogelj Huber and Barbara Sÿdlerin  ("primogenita" = firstborn.)

14.02.1664 Hanß of Heinj Huber and Cathrj Sÿdlerin

Note: The parish of Aeugst am Albis was established in 1667. Prior to 1667, the villages of Aeugst and Wengi belonged to the parish of Mettmenstetten,

1662 Anna Huber bap Heinr Huber and Kathar Sydler 
 Mettmenstetten Aeugst, Zürich, Schweiz10 August ZH
film 008014293. page 98

Wolf: 

Anna bapt. 10.08.1662 was ("primogenita" = firstborn.)

Down the page there is also an Anna bapt. 12.11.1662 - also  "primogenita" = firstborn

1664 Hanss Huber bap Heini father Cathri Sydler mother 14 Feb 
 Mettmenstetten  Aeugst, Zürich, Schweiz ZH
film 008014293 page 100 Jakob Kleiner 
witness  

Kent: I searched 12 BV's in Ottenbach, Mettmenstetten and Aeugst without finding a Heinrich and Catharina. Went to "search records" tab and looked for Catharina Sidler and found one in Urdorf. I thought, unusual but I've looked everywhere else. Why not? Went to the BV for 1678. Bingo. Her first two births match up. This is her. How they wandered from Ottenbach, to Mettmenstetten and finally to Urdorf is a mystery but here she is. The handwriting is beautiful, I would say perfect! 😎 What a journey this has been!!!

1678 Bevölkerungsverzeichnis Dietikon-Urdorf  title page film 008126303 page 298

Wolf: Now for the text (page 505): the first para is written in Greek letters – at least most of it (some are looking unfamiliar to me – but that could just be the handwriting). I can still recite the first lines of Homer's Odyssey – but my Greek is too rusted by now to attempt a translation 😉.

1678 Heinrich Huber, Catharina Sidler in Urdorf film 008126303
Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 

Wolf: 
We obviously have connections for Sidler between Ottenbach and Mettmenstetten. The connection to Urdorf might(!) be the husband: Huber is one of the most common names in German speaking regions – no surprise they also held pre-1800 citizenship in Urdorf.
Catalogus - 1 - Der Kirchen und Gemeinds-genoßen zu OberUrdorfCatalogue oft the parish and community members in Oberurdorf
II Heinrich Huber, Anna Oberdörfferin (https://suche.staatsarchiv.djiktzh.ch/detail.aspx?ID=2026999)
Kinder:
25 Hanß, in der Pfalz (Palatinate)
Söhn in der Ehe (married sons):
a. Hanß Jagli Huber, Cleophea Lenckin (no corresponding marriage entry in EDB)
Kinder:
18 Adelheit
16 Hanß (diser ist in disem 1678.ten Jahr ... zogen (moved somewhere?)
b. Heinrich Huber, Catharina Sydlerin
Kinder:
16 Anna (bapt. 10.08.1662)
14 Hanß (bapt. 14.02.1664)
12 Heinrich
3 Cathrindli
½ Magdalendli
The first two names match with the baptisms above.

Wolf: I have now published the Huber data on Geneal-Forum.
Whilst writing this up I had another look at the BV page - and came to another conclusion: "diser ist in disem 1678.ten Jahr ... zogen" doesn't refer to Hans - but his father Hans Jagli - and if I read/interpret this correctly, Hans Jagli (better: he and his family) had moved to Urdorf from Windisch, (today) canton Aargau. In this case the parents may have married in Aargau - which would explain why there is no entry in EDB. See Hans Jakob Huber oo (vor 1660) Cleophea Lenk.

1692 Catharina Sidler burial 15 Jan Urdorf-Dietikon page 254 

Wolf:
Catharina Sidlerin, Heinrich Huber deß heüw-baur(en) ehel. gl. Haußfr(auw) starb an dem Stich, lag nur 4 (tag?). Obijt 15. Jan. [1692]
I am not absolutely sure about the "heüw-baur(en)": I don't feel that haymaker would be a proper translation - he would be a farmer producing (mainly) hay.
"ehel. gl. Haußfr(auw)": his married beloved housewife.
"starb an dem Stich, lag nur 4 (tag?)": died from Pleuritis after being sick for 4 days.

Wolf: I had suggested that Cathrin (born 1631 to Jakob and Vronegg Urmi) might have died between 1647 and 1649.

1661 Marriage Jacob Kleiner and Katharina Sidler Mettmenstetten page 19. by Billeter