Hans Peter Scholl may be a child of Joss Scholl and Barbara Dietrich. The death record for Anna Margaretha daughter of Hans Peter Scholl b 3 Nov 1654 - 14 April 1661, identifies her as the Tailor's daughter. However on the 19 Nov 1654 Anna Barbara, daughter of Hanß
Reinhardt Metzger was baptised and Peter Scholl was a baptismal sponsor and identified as a carpenter or joiner in another document. Since most of Peter's children have Hanß
Reinhardt as baptismal sponsors there appears to be a good case for the latter profession. One the other hand in 14 April 1661 Anna Margaretha Hans Peter Scholl, the Tailor's (Schneider), 6 years old daughter buried in the ground Christianly. It is difficult to know, maybe he was both a carpenter and a tailor.
Note: Peter
Scholl may be the child of Joss Scholl because he is born around the same
time as Joss's other possible children and because he is born within a few years of Joss.
Hans Peter had at least five children in the early Graben records that are verified. In three of the records below show Peter's wife as Margaretha. On the 30 April [1667], Hanß Peter Scholl, in the 40th year of his age died as seen in the final record on this page. If that is the case Joss Scholl was 17 years old at the time and Barbara would be 13 years old at the time of his first child's birth, which could be. Maybe a better case could be made for his birth in 1632 when Joss was 22 and Barbara Dietrich was 18.
Why are baptismal sponsors important?
When you see a series of children with the same sponsor it tells you they may well be related. I view this as proof you are matching the right parents with the right children. For instance Hanß Reinhard Mezger shows up in five documents below. Also on the 19th November 1654 Peter Scholl is the baptismal sponsor for Anna Barbara Mezger who's father is none other than Hanß Reinhard Mezger. I think this is proof positive Peter Scholl and Reinhard Mezger were best friends!
What do we know about Hans Peter and Margaretha's children?
1. Hans Peter Scholl bap on the 12 of September 1652, parents Hanß Petter Scholl and Margretha, baptismal sponsors:
Hanß Reinhard Mezger,
Zimmermanns verified by sponsor
2. Anna Margaretha b 3 Nov 1654 - 14 April 1661 Witnesses were Hanß Reinhardt Heule and his wife Anna Maria
and
Hanß Peter Koller and wife Margaretha
Heylig (document below) verified by sponsor
3. Anna Margaretha b 1655 - , Parent Peter Scholl, no birth record found, unverified
4.Anna Dorothea Scholl 10 August 1657-24 April 1661, Parent Peter Scholl, mother Anna Margaretha, baptismal sponsor:
Hanß Reinhard Mezger, verified by sponsor
5. Anna Barbara Scholl September 1659-10 Oct 1859, Parent Peter Scholl, sponsors: Hanß Reinhard Mettzger, Zimmermann verified by sponsor
6. Hans Mattias Scholl 1660- 16 Apr 1667, death at 7 yrs old, Parent Peter Scholl
7. Anna Maria Scholl 24 Oct 1660, Parent Peter Scholl, Margaretha, baptismal sponsor:
Hanß Reinhard Metzger, verified by sponsor
Who are Peter Koller and wife Margaretha
Heylig?
Here are some interesting death records from Graben Pastor Augustin Langer all contained on one page: (see end of this post)
10 October 1659 Anna Barbara death, buried 11th parent Peter Scholl
07 Apr 1661 Barbara Scholl, 59 years old (born 1601, not on FS and could be Peter's mother if his mother is not Barbara Dietrich
14 Apr 1661 Anna Margaretha, parent Hans Peter Scholl
24 April 1661 Anna Dorothea, parent Peter Scholl
12 Oct 1667 Hans Petter Scholl, death in the 40th year of his age
Documents related to Peter Scholl:
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| Hans Bernhard Munk m 7 Apr 1578 in Spöck to Maria Strausser film 102061039 page 144 |
Translation by Robert Seal:
Right margin: 36. Bernhard and Maria.
On the same day [7 April 1678] were married Bernhard Munk, citizen at Graben, with Maria, surviving widow of the late Hannß Wilhelm Strauß, blessed/deceased former citizen here.
Right margin: 36. Bernhard and Maria.
On the same day [7 April 1678] were married Bernhard Munk, citizen at Graben, with Maria, surviving widow of the late Hannß Wilhelm Strauß, blessed/deceased former citizen here.
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| Hans Petter Scholl b 12 Sep 1652 film 102078348 page 143 |
There appears to be four baptismal sponsors which I have shown below on four separate lines in case another volunteer can help out with this difficult record:
Translation:
Parents are recorded in the left margin: Hanß Petter Scholl and Margretha.
I have M. Mathaeiaß Meÿermaister, pastor of "Speck" [Spöck] and "Staffert" [Staffort], baptized a child, his name Hanß Petter. Baptismal sponsors:
Petter Keller?, son of Martin Keller?;
Hanß _______ "des Zimmermanns Sohn";
_______ Margretha _________ daughter;
and Dorothea ________ "Zimmermanns Dochter [Tochter means daughter]".
on the 12th of September [1652].
Robert Seal Comment: I don't know what the "M." stands for before the pastor's name but it appears in all of the records on this page.
Ulrich Neitzel: To add on Robert's remark:
"Magister" = M. in this context means the lower university degree (corresponding to today's Master of...). For illustration see the list below: two people (both clergyman) have the title Magister, one (a physician) has the title Doctor (Dr.). Note also that the (Latin) titles are set with Latin typeface in contrast to the normal Fraktur.
By the way, the abbreviation for a doctor of theology in old documents is usually D., not Dr.
"Magister" = M. in this context means the lower university degree (corresponding to today's Master of...). For illustration see the list below: two people (both clergyman) have the title Magister, one (a physician) has the title Doctor (Dr.). Note also that the (Latin) titles are set with Latin typeface in contrast to the normal Fraktur.
By the way, the abbreviation for a doctor of theology in old documents is usually D., not Dr.
Ulrich Neitzel:it remains difficult to squeeze out more. Here my transcription (additions to Robert' translation in bold):
habe ich M. Mathaeiaß Meyermaister Pfr. von Speck u: Staffert ein Kind getaufft [sein] namm Hanß Petter. Comp. Petter Keller, Martin Kellers Sohn, Hanßreinharth ___ . deß Zimmermans Sohn, und? Margaretha h__ Heyllers Dochter und? Dorothea deß Endris?_ Zimmermans Dochter. d 12 SeptemberEnglish version of above:
habe ich M. Mathaeiaß Meyermaister Pfr. von Speck u: Staffert ein Kind getaufft [sein] namm Hanß Petter. Comp. Petter Keller, Martin Kellers Sohn, Hanßreinharth ___ . deß Zimmermans Sohn, und? Margaretha h__ Heyllers Dochter und? Dorothea deß Endris?_ Zimmermans Dochter. d 12 SeptemberEnglish version of above:
I have M. Mathaeiaß Meyermaister Pfr. von Speck u: Staffert a child baptized [his] namm Hanß Petter. Comp. Petter Keller, Martin Keller's son, Hanßreinharth ___ . deß Zimmerman's son, and? Margaretha h__ Heyller's daughter and? Dorothea deß Endris?_ Zimmerman's daughter. d 12 September Also other children of Hans Petter Scholl have a sponsor with the name Hans Reinhard; unclear to me if this can be the same person.
In a recent response on another of your questions, @Ulrich Neitzel interpreted the "M." before a pastor's name as the word "Magister". So it's possible the "M." in this record means the same.
Thode, German-English Genealogical Dictionary,
defines "Magister" as: master; teacher. In addition I found one online
source that said "Magister" is a form of address appropriate for a
doctor of theology.
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| Anna Margaretha and Peter Scholl 3 Nov 1654 film 004137289 page 203 |
Translation by Marion Wolfert:
Witnesses: were Hanß Reinhardt Heule and his wife Anna Maria and Hanß Reinhardt Metzger and Hanß Peter Koller and wife Margaretha Heylig
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| Anna Barbara and Peter Scholl 19 Nov 1654 film 004137289 page 203 |
Translation by Robert Seal:
[Baptized] on the 19th of November [1654], Anna Barbara, Hanß Reinhardt Metzger's little daughter.
Baptsimal sponsors: Hanß Peter Scholl, local joiner, and his wife, with Matthß Stoffel Zimmerman? and his bride Anna Barbara.[Baptized] on the 19th of November [1654], Anna Barbara, Hanß Reinhardt Metzger's little daughter.
Left margin: + [died].
Translation by Marion Wolfert
Baptized on the 19 Nov 1654 was Anna Barbara, daughter of Hanß Reinhardt Metzger. Witnesses are Hanß Peter Scholl a local carpenter and his wife, and Matthies Stofel Himmelmann or Himmermann and his bride Anna Barbara
Date: on the 10th of August [1657].
Child: Anna Dorothea.
Parents: Hanß Peter Scholl and Anna Margaretha.
Baptismal sponsors: Hanß Reinhard Mezger and his wife; Anna Dorothea Ruffin and Hanß Balthasar Hoffmann, both still single.
Comment: The phrasing for the baptismal sponsors was a little confusing. Was Hanß Reinhard Mezger's wife Anna Dorothea Ruffin or was his wife not named in the record? Given the phrase at the end "both still single" I decided there were four baptismal sponsor:
Baptized on the 19 Nov 1654 was Anna Barbara, daughter of Hanß Reinhardt Metzger. Witnesses are Hanß Peter Scholl a local carpenter and his wife, and Matthies Stofel Himmelmann or Himmermann and his bride Anna Barbara
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| Anna Dorothea Scholl baptized 10 Aug 1657, film 102078348 page 147 |
Translation by Robert Seal:
Date: on the 10th of August [1657].
Child: Anna Dorothea.
Parents: Hanß Peter Scholl and Anna Margaretha.
Baptismal sponsors: Hanß Reinhard Mezger and his wife; Anna Dorothea Ruffin and Hanß Balthasar Hoffmann, both still single.
Comment: The phrasing for the baptismal sponsors was a little confusing. Was Hanß Reinhard Mezger's wife Anna Dorothea Ruffin or was his wife not named in the record? Given the phrase at the end "both still single" I decided there were four baptismal sponsor:
(1) Hanß Reinhard Mezger;
(2) his wife (unnamed);
(3) Anna Dorothea Ruffin; and
(4) Hanß Balthasar Hoffmann.
Note: Then the phrase "both still single" would refer to sponsors (3) and (4) only.
Note:Anna Dorothea Scholl baptized 10 Aug 1657, Hans Peter father, witnesses: Anna Margaretha mother, And Dorothea was baptized the 10 August 1657
Note:Anna Dorothea Scholl baptized 10 Aug 1657, Hans Peter father, witnesses: Anna Margaretha mother, And Dorothea was baptized the 10 August 1657
Written by: Pastor Martin Luzius
Date: on the [blank] of September [1659].
Child: Anna Barbara.
Parents: Hanß Peter Scholl and wife.
Baptismal sponsors: Joseph Zimmermann, Hanß Reinhardt Henli_? and wife, and Anna Barbara, Joseph Zimmermann.
Comment: The child's mother is not specifically identified in this record.
Translation by Robert Seal:
18 April [1667], Hanß Matteiß, Hans Peter Scholl's son, in the 5th year of his age. (death record)
29 August Catharina Schollin, house frau, Carsti Scholin (husband who died before her) deceased widow (Wittler) in 60 years, buried in the ground Christianly
10 October Anna Barbara Peter Scholl's little daughter 10 days old she was buried the next day
1661
7 April Barbara Scholl widow 59 years was buried (no father or husband mentioned) buried in the Lord
14 April Anna Margaretha daughter, Hans Peter Scholl, the Tailor's (Schneider), 6 years old daughter buried in the ground Christianly.
24 April Death of Anna Dorothea, father Hans Peter Scholl, 3.5 years old
Translation by Robert Seal:
30 April [1667], Hanß Peter Scholl, in the 40th year of his age.
Notes: This puts Peter Scholl's birth at 1627. The Graben records don't go back to 1627 so we have no record of this man's birth.
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| Hans Peter father Scholl birth of Anna Barbara Scholl, September 1659 film 4137289 page 210, Joseph Zimmerman is a godparent Recorded by Pastor Martin Luzius |
Translation by Robert Seal:
Date: on the [blank] of September [1659].
Child: Anna Barbara.
Parents: Hanß Peter Scholl and wife.
Baptismal sponsors: Joseph Zimmermann, Hanß Reinhardt Henli_? and wife, and Anna Barbara, Joseph Zimmermann.
Comment: The child's mother is not specifically identified in this record.
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| Hans Matteiss Scholl death 18 Apr 1667, 5 yrs old his age father Hans Peter film 102078298 page 256 Graben Pastor Sebastian Aepinus |
18 April [1667], Hanß Matteiß, Hans Peter Scholl's son, in the 5th year of his age. (death record)
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| Hans Peter father Scholl and his wife Anna Margaretha birth of Anna Maria 24 Oct 1660 film 4137289 page 210, The mother is identified and Margaretha. and witnesses unrelated one is Hertig (seen in multiple documents) Recorded by Pastor Sebastian Aepinus |
Translation by Robert Seal
I read the year at the top of the page as: 1660.
Date: on the 24th of October [1660].
Child: Anna Maria.
Parents: Hanß Peter Scholl and his wife Anna Margretha.
Baptismal sponsors: Hanß Reinhard Haüli_/Hänli_? and wife
Maria; Christoff Meubs?, here, the mayor's son; and Margretha Rößlerin, the mayor's maid.
Notes: Hans Peter father Scholl and his wife Anna Margaretha birth of Anna Maria 24 Oct 1669. The mother is identified as Margaretha, and witnesses unrelated one is Hertig (seen in multiple documents below)
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| 1659 - 1661 Many Scholl deaths. film 4137289 page 254 Recorded by Pastor Augustin Langer. |
Translation by Robert Seal:
165929 August Catharina Schollin, house frau, Carsti Scholin (husband who died before her) deceased widow (Wittler) in 60 years, buried in the ground Christianly
10 October Anna Barbara Peter Scholl's little daughter 10 days old she was buried the next day
1661
7 April Barbara Scholl widow 59 years was buried (no father or husband mentioned) buried in the Lord
14 April Anna Margaretha daughter, Hans Peter Scholl, the Tailor's (Schneider), 6 years old daughter buried in the ground Christianly.
24 April Death of Anna Dorothea, father Hans Peter Scholl, 3.5 years old
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| Hans Petter Scholl death 12 Oct 1667 film 004137289 page 256 |
30 April [1667], Hanß Peter Scholl, in the 40th year of his age.
Notes: This puts Peter Scholl's birth at 1627. The Graben records don't go back to 1627 so we have no record of this man's birth.
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| Margarte Scholl spon 1670 film 004137289 page 215 |
Translation by Robert Seal:
Date: 3 February [1670].
Child: Hans Matthis.
Parents: Hans Mats Zeisloff, Margreta, wife.
Baptismal sponsors: Hans Mats Scholl together with wife. Hans
Jürg Kammer[er]. Sidonia, daughter of Hans Weidman (LCYM-28F born 1652 died 19 March 1721, 7 children)
Question: Who is Sidonia, daughter of Hans Weidman? Anna Sidonia Weidmann was born in 1652. She married Hans Jörg Cammerer about 1674 and they had seven children. She died 19 March 1721 a the age of 69. Her husband Jörg died 16 years previous at the age of 53 on 16 July 1705 in Graben.
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| Scholl sponsor 1671 fiilm 004237289 page 216 |
Translation by Robert Seal:
Record number: 5.
Date: 19 September [1671].
Child: Joh. Christophorus. (Died 20 Dec 1692)
Parents: Bernhard Munk, Sidonia, wife. (Bernhard's wife is
Anna Maria Strauss)
Record number: 5.
Date: 19 September [1671].
Child: Joh. Christophorus. (Died 20 Dec 1692)
Parents: Bernhard Munk, Sidonia, wife. (Bernhard's wife is
Anna Maria Strauss)
Baptismal sponsors: H[ans] Peter? Scholl, lawyer?. Eva, wife. A[nna] Barbara Zimmermännin, w___?
Comments: The first sponsor's name is either: H[ans] Peter? Scholl or Mr.Peter? Scholl. I am not sure about the name "Peter".
I am interpreting the abbreviation "Anw." after the first sponsor's name as: "Anwalt" = lawyer.
Comments: The first sponsor's name is either: H[ans] Peter? Scholl or Mr.Peter? Scholl. I am not sure about the name "Peter".
I am interpreting the abbreviation "Anw." after the first sponsor's name as: "Anwalt" = lawyer.
Who is Peter Scholl lawyer with wife Eva?
Who is Hans Bernhard Munk?
Hans was born in 1630. He married Anna Maria Strauss 7 April 1678 in Graben. They had 9 children. He died 23 May 1707.
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| Anna Sidonia Cammerers age 69 death 19 Mar 1721 film 102978298 |
22. On the 19th of March [1721], in the evening, Anna Sidonia died, surviving widow of the late Hanß Geog Cammerer, former local citizen, who thereafter on the 21st [of March 1721] was honestly buried according to custom. Age: 69 years and approximately 4 months.
Note: Sidonia is a baptismal sponsor for the Scholl family in 1670 and 1671 as noted abov.